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	<title>Comments on: The Latest Craze</title>
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		<title>By: Jason Beaird</title>
		<link>http://yesterdayishere.com/now/log/the-latest-craze/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Beaird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2005 02:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yesterdayishere.com/wordpress/?p=81#comment-174</guid>
		<description>Derek, I stand corrected and apologize for defending your unique design decision with the erroneous title of print designer.  In fact, after doing some belated research, you were probably a source of inspiration to me in the past with your reputation for creating unique designs... I did not call you an idiot. I would call you an artist any day. But I won&#039;t make the mistake of calling you an print designer again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek, I stand corrected and apologize for defending your unique design decision with the erroneous title of print designer.  In fact, after doing some belated research, you were probably a source of inspiration to me in the past with your reputation for creating unique designs&#8230; I did not call you an idiot. I would call you an artist any day. But I won&#8217;t make the mistake of calling you an print designer again.</p>
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		<title>By: Rose</title>
		<link>http://yesterdayishere.com/now/log/the-latest-craze/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>Rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yesterdayishere.com/wordpress/?p=81#comment-173</guid>
		<description>Jason, you should really do some research on Derek Powazekbefore you call him a print designer.  He&#039;s been doing web design longer than just about anyone online.  Yes, even longer than the &quot;famous&quot; Zeldman (who interviewed &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.zeldman.com/15/main.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Derek&lt;/a&gt; back in &#039;98).  

Just because the web has evolved does not mean that the people who have been doing this stuff for a long, long time don&#039;t know what they&#039;re doing.  Like true artists, they know the rules before they break them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, you should really do some research on Derek Powazekbefore you call him a print designer.  He&#8217;s been doing web design longer than just about anyone online.  Yes, even longer than the &#8220;famous&#8221; Zeldman (who interviewed <a href="http://www.zeldman.com/15/main.html" rel="nofollow">Derek</a> back in &#8217;98).  </p>
<p>Just because the web has evolved does not mean that the people who have been doing this stuff for a long, long time don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re doing.  Like true artists, they know the rules before they break them.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://yesterdayishere.com/now/log/the-latest-craze/#comment-170</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yesterdayishere.com/wordpress/?p=81#comment-170</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s really weird to me how often I have to repeat this, but here goes: &lt;b&gt;Please for the love of all that&#039;s good DO put nav at the top.&lt;/b&gt; I&#039;m not saying that nav should ONLY be at the bottom, I&#039;m merely saying that it should ALSO be at the bottom.

And Jason? Dude. That &quot;1995&quot; you see on my site? That&#039;s when I started designing websites. Call me an idiot, call me an artist, just don&#039;t call me a &quot;print designer.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s really weird to me how often I have to repeat this, but here goes: <b>Please for the love of all that&#8217;s good DO put nav at the top.</b> I&#8217;m not saying that nav should ONLY be at the bottom, I&#8217;m merely saying that it should ALSO be at the bottom.</p>
<p>And Jason? Dude. That &#8220;1995&#8243; you see on my site? That&#8217;s when I started designing websites. Call me an idiot, call me an artist, just don&#8217;t call me a &#8220;print designer.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://yesterdayishere.com/now/log/the-latest-craze/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:22:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yesterdayishere.com/wordpress/?p=81#comment-168</guid>
		<description>i&#039;ve had my main nav at the bottom since the latest redesign, and even my clients like it. the case studies are at the top, and the  main items at the bottom. it&#039;s worked for me so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;ve had my main nav at the bottom since the latest redesign, and even my clients like it. the case studies are at the top, and the  main items at the bottom. it&#8217;s worked for me so far.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Beaird</title>
		<link>http://yesterdayishere.com/now/log/the-latest-craze/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Beaird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yesterdayishere.com/wordpress/?p=81#comment-167</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;To Bojan:&lt;/b&gt; The argument you present here is well supported by UI research and current standards.  From a &quot;business&quot; point of view, a web designer would be insane to put the main navigation at the bottom of a page...especially when working for a traditional client.  You&#039;ve done a great job at explaining that and it was an interesting read.

but...

&lt;b&gt;To all &lt;em&gt;(including Derek)&lt;/em&gt;:&lt;/b&gt; When it comes to a personal or portfolio design site, sometimes expression and being &quot;different&quot; is more important than rules.  Nobody wants to be a sellout.  Nobody wants their site to look like somebody elses... I know I don&#039;t.  And, I see the value in rewarding the users who make it to the bottom of your page, but if it&#039;s navigation that you&#039;re holding out for those people, you&#039;re cutting your nose off to spite your face.  Derek: On Powazek, why wouldn&#039;t you put the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.powazek.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ephemera&lt;/a&gt; section at the bottom of the page and leave the navigation for everyone else?...because it&#039;s eyecandy? It&#039;s something that you know people will be interested in.  Those images are something nobody else has on their site, and that nice dark border is a visual anchor for the page...heck the first t thing I clicked on after reading your post was the picture of the toilet.  Navigation though, is not a reward; it&#039;s a necesity.  Otherwise, your website may as well be printed in a magazine.  But, you&#039;re a print designer.  I think it actually works on your site because people who are primarily print designers have the tough job of thinking outside the browser on a day to day basis, and showing that on your personal site is an asset.   In Keegan&#039;s defense, I know the decision to put the navigation at the bottom was probably fueled by the same &quot;I wanna be different&quot; idea.  Keegan however (like myself) is primarily a web desginer, and when I&#039;m on his &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.keeganjones.com/About&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;otherwise normally laid out about page&lt;/a&gt;, I expect to see a contact or portfolio link.  Instead, I glance over and see that he likes Mountain Dew / Frappucino and plays Frisbee Golf...WHO CARES! The bottom line is that if you&#039;re going to buck the system, you&#039;d better be ready for some criticism.  The other bottom line is that if you REALLY buck the system, you&#039;re an artist.  If you just barely wander off the beaten path...you&#039;re a fool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>To Bojan:</b> The argument you present here is well supported by UI research and current standards.  From a &#8220;business&#8221; point of view, a web designer would be insane to put the main navigation at the bottom of a page&#8230;especially when working for a traditional client.  You&#8217;ve done a great job at explaining that and it was an interesting read.</p>
<p>but&#8230;</p>
<p><b>To all <em>(including Derek)</em>:</b> When it comes to a personal or portfolio design site, sometimes expression and being &#8220;different&#8221; is more important than rules.  Nobody wants to be a sellout.  Nobody wants their site to look like somebody elses&#8230; I know I don&#8217;t.  And, I see the value in rewarding the users who make it to the bottom of your page, but if it&#8217;s navigation that you&#8217;re holding out for those people, you&#8217;re cutting your nose off to spite your face.  Derek: On Powazek, why wouldn&#8217;t you put the <a href="http://www.powazek.com/" rel="nofollow">Ephemera</a> section at the bottom of the page and leave the navigation for everyone else?&#8230;because it&#8217;s eyecandy? It&#8217;s something that you know people will be interested in.  Those images are something nobody else has on their site, and that nice dark border is a visual anchor for the page&#8230;heck the first t thing I clicked on after reading your post was the picture of the toilet.  Navigation though, is not a reward; it&#8217;s a necesity.  Otherwise, your website may as well be printed in a magazine.  But, you&#8217;re a print designer.  I think it actually works on your site because people who are primarily print designers have the tough job of thinking outside the browser on a day to day basis, and showing that on your personal site is an asset.   In Keegan&#8217;s defense, I know the decision to put the navigation at the bottom was probably fueled by the same &#8220;I wanna be different&#8221; idea.  Keegan however (like myself) is primarily a web desginer, and when I&#8217;m on his <a href="http://www.keeganjones.com/About" rel="nofollow">otherwise normally laid out about page</a>, I expect to see a contact or portfolio link.  Instead, I glance over and see that he likes Mountain Dew / Frappucino and plays Frisbee Golf&#8230;WHO CARES! The bottom line is that if you&#8217;re going to buck the system, you&#8217;d better be ready for some criticism.  The other bottom line is that if you REALLY buck the system, you&#8217;re an artist.  If you just barely wander off the beaten path&#8230;you&#8217;re a fool.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Faulkner</title>
		<link>http://yesterdayishere.com/now/log/the-latest-craze/#comment-164</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Faulkner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yesterdayishere.com/wordpress/?p=81#comment-164</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;Rose&quot;&gt;What if your page is super short? For example, no longer than 600 px long?&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t think you&#039;d be able to know this as many people will change font sizes and view the site by different means.

The only way that I&#039;m aware of is to declare a certain height and keep it fixed. But this has its issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="Rose"><p>What if your page is super short? For example, no longer than 600 px long?&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;d be able to know this as many people will change font sizes and view the site by different means.</p>
<p>The only way that I&#8217;m aware of is to declare a certain height and keep it fixed. But this has its issues.</p>
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		<title>By: fadtastic - a web trends journal  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Design over content, or is it content over design?</title>
		<link>http://yesterdayishere.com/now/log/the-latest-craze/#comment-162</link>
		<dc:creator>fadtastic - a web trends journal  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Design over content, or is it content over design?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yesterdayishere.com/wordpress/?p=81#comment-162</guid>
		<description>[...] re!&#8221; But then I&#8217;m pushed into thinking&#8230; &#8220;Ah, how daft of me! I was fooled into thinking that by moving my navigation to the bottom of my pa [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] re!&#8221; But then I&#8217;m pushed into thinking&#8230; &#8220;Ah, how daft of me! I was fooled into thinking that by moving my navigation to the bottom of my pa [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fredrik</title>
		<link>http://yesterdayishere.com/now/log/the-latest-craze/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>Fredrik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yesterdayishere.com/wordpress/?p=81#comment-159</guid>
		<description>kevadamson, Bojan. What I was criticizing is not the navigation at the bottom of the page. It should be at the bottom of the page in a web document for two reasons:

1) Sitewide navigation will repeat itself for a screen reader over and over, when the user most likely will be after the content
2) Search engines.

However, for the first one a &quot;skip&quot; alternative should still be availiable at the top, or for each major page element. An internal navigation for the document itself. This is good praxis in terms of usability.

The ideal term though always is to have the navigation visible at all times. If it is visible, it should really be at the bottom of the screen in my opinion.

Keyword is &lt;strong&gt;visible&lt;/strong&gt;. Laying there, smacked on the bottom of the screen. No matter how much you scroll it should &lt;strong&gt;still be there&lt;/strong&gt;. This is acctually true either way, regardless of whether you place your navigation to the left or right. Users should always have the option to &quot;get out&quot; or navigate even if they scroll.

Not everyone has a scrollwheel. Not everyone can scroll efficiently. Some still just drag the bar. Never assume that anything about a user. That&#039;s why the ideal layout is a fluid one with fixed elements.

I usually say &lt;i&gt;never assume anything about your user, and if you have to assume the worst&lt;/i&gt;. So, basicly, don&#039;t assume that scrolling falls naturally into place either.

Regarding users reading contents I read a study a while back that a mere 14% acctually read a whole newspaper, while over 75% acctually take the time to read through a webpage. In my opinion, that&#039;s not a bad figure to start with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kevadamson, Bojan. What I was criticizing is not the navigation at the bottom of the page. It should be at the bottom of the page in a web document for two reasons:</p>
<p>1) Sitewide navigation will repeat itself for a screen reader over and over, when the user most likely will be after the content<br />
2) Search engines.</p>
<p>However, for the first one a &#8220;skip&#8221; alternative should still be availiable at the top, or for each major page element. An internal navigation for the document itself. This is good praxis in terms of usability.</p>
<p>The ideal term though always is to have the navigation visible at all times. If it is visible, it should really be at the bottom of the screen in my opinion.</p>
<p>Keyword is <strong>visible</strong>. Laying there, smacked on the bottom of the screen. No matter how much you scroll it should <strong>still be there</strong>. This is acctually true either way, regardless of whether you place your navigation to the left or right. Users should always have the option to &#8220;get out&#8221; or navigate even if they scroll.</p>
<p>Not everyone has a scrollwheel. Not everyone can scroll efficiently. Some still just drag the bar. Never assume that anything about a user. That&#8217;s why the ideal layout is a fluid one with fixed elements.</p>
<p>I usually say <i>never assume anything about your user, and if you have to assume the worst</i>. So, basicly, don&#8217;t assume that scrolling falls naturally into place either.</p>
<p>Regarding users reading contents I read a study a while back that a mere 14% acctually read a whole newspaper, while over 75% acctually take the time to read through a webpage. In my opinion, that&#8217;s not a bad figure to start with.</p>
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		<title>By: Rose</title>
		<link>http://yesterdayishere.com/now/log/the-latest-craze/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yesterdayishere.com/wordpress/?p=81#comment-158</guid>
		<description>Mr. Powazek, you&#039;re everywhere!  But of course, you&#039;re a web guru extraodinaire.  Bojan, I can see your concern why people might want to imitate the elaborate footer technique. Derek Powazek has always been a trend setter!  Hell I&#039;ve taken some inspiration from Fray when I made Unsent Letters.

Concerning site traffic within a site: I find that people don&#039;t really go into a site very deeply unless they are extremely curious, or unless it&#039;s painfully easy for them to do.   In fact many simply quit after the first page.  Especially if it has a big flash thingamonstrosity.   I do think that a good navigation helps to hook people in and get them to at least play around with it, for nothing else but for the &quot;ohhh pretty&quot; element.  

But I don&#039;t know any tried-and-true methods for keeping a visitor around, or to have that person read more than 50% of a site.  In my own sites I abuse the &quot;next&quot; link a lot.  I figure if I make it so that navigation can be accomplished in a strictly linear fashion, nothing can go wrong.  It&#039;s probably a pain though if they don&#039;t care for the content, but I figure that content is the key to keeping visitors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Powazek, you&#8217;re everywhere!  But of course, you&#8217;re a web guru extraodinaire.  Bojan, I can see your concern why people might want to imitate the elaborate footer technique. Derek Powazek has always been a trend setter!  Hell I&#8217;ve taken some inspiration from Fray when I made Unsent Letters.</p>
<p>Concerning site traffic within a site: I find that people don&#8217;t really go into a site very deeply unless they are extremely curious, or unless it&#8217;s painfully easy for them to do.   In fact many simply quit after the first page.  Especially if it has a big flash thingamonstrosity.   I do think that a good navigation helps to hook people in and get them to at least play around with it, for nothing else but for the &#8220;ohhh pretty&#8221; element.  </p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t know any tried-and-true methods for keeping a visitor around, or to have that person read more than 50% of a site.  In my own sites I abuse the &#8220;next&#8221; link a lot.  I figure if I make it so that navigation can be accomplished in a strictly linear fashion, nothing can go wrong.  It&#8217;s probably a pain though if they don&#8217;t care for the content, but I figure that content is the key to keeping visitors.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://yesterdayishere.com/now/log/the-latest-craze/#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yesterdayishere.com/wordpress/?p=81#comment-157</guid>
		<description>But look at the experience you&#039;re creating for your BEST users - the users who DO read all the way to the bottom: Firefox, Wordpress, RSS. Where are you encouraging them to go? One word: Away.

It&#039;s your site - I&#039;m all about doing whatever you want on your personal site. But don&#039;t fret about an avalanche of bottom nav. Think about it this way: If users really don&#039;t scroll, then they&#039;ll never see it, so no harm done. 

But maybe you should give it a try and see what it does to your inter-site traffic before you condemn it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But look at the experience you&#8217;re creating for your BEST users &#8211; the users who DO read all the way to the bottom: Firefox, WordPress, RSS. Where are you encouraging them to go? One word: Away.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s your site &#8211; I&#8217;m all about doing whatever you want on your personal site. But don&#8217;t fret about an avalanche of bottom nav. Think about it this way: If users really don&#8217;t scroll, then they&#8217;ll never see it, so no harm done. </p>
<p>But maybe you should give it a try and see what it does to your inter-site traffic before you condemn it?</p>
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